Congress leader Kapil Sibal interview: Where has PM Modi brought this country to?

Not at all. You may be a good communicator at the beginning of your tenure or prior to that because you can sell a dream. But the dreams have to be realised. Four-and-a-half years down the road, those dreams have been shattered. The people have realised that they were just dreams — only for making an impact on their mind so that people could vote for him.

If you really look at what has happened in these years…I remember (Arun) Jaitley and the Prime Minister prior to 2014 talking about policy paralysis. This policy paralysis delivered 8.2 per cent growth from 2004 to 2014, and that reality has now emerged. And this great leader of our country, what has he delivered in terms of economic growth despite the fact that he had a full majority? We (Congress) had to work within a coalition. So, it tells you that the Prime Minister has been exposed, and every segment of the society has been disenchanted by the promises that he made.

Opinion polls suggest Modi is still the most popular leader.

Remember, in 2004 (then PM Atal Bihari) Vajpayee-ji was also the most popular leader, and there was no leader in the opposition. People said…India Shining (BJP’s 2004 campaign slogan), everything is hunky dory, and there is nobody to match Vajpayee. (But) what happened? Communication after four-and-a-half years does not get you votes. It is delivery on the ground that gets you votes.

(But) where is the delivery? What has demonetisation done? It has cost us 1.5 per cent of the GDP. In any other country, after this thoughtless, mindless action without understanding the consequences of that act, the Prime Minister would have had to resign.

Over the years, he (Modi) has certainly won elections, but the impact of his policies are now being felt.

But what is the story the Congress will sell to people? Are you going to just keep attacking Narendra Modi?

It is going to be a multi-faceted strategy. One we will have to communicate with the people. We will have to inform them of the reality of India today and the promises that he had made which he did not deliver. That is one part of the strategy. The other part of the strategy is to get like-minded people together, may be have state-specific alliances if we can’t manage a maha-gathbandhan (grand alliance) and fight Modi politically.

In the best of times, the BJP does not have more than 31 per cent of the votes. That is the political strategy.

The other strategy is to provide an alternative to the people in terms of what our policies are going to be, and the two crucial areas are education and health, where this government has miserably failed. The biggest challenge in our country is unemployment. There are no jobs. Exports are stagnant, they were in decline for several months…there are no export earnings. The rupee is almost 72 (to a dollar) today, and imports are on the rise.

Power plants, steel plants, cement plants don’t have coal, we are importing coal at the highest possible rate…. The current account deficit is high. People have to buy petrol at Rs 86 (per litre, in Mumbai) and diesel at over Rs 74.

You have said that an attempt to form a grand alliance at the national level is not going to be easy.

Because there are many political parties across states with different positions on many issues. It doesn’t make sense to have a grand alliance of that sort. It makes more sense to have strategic alliances within states, because a lot of these parties…don’t have a national footprint. So we (Congress), as a national party, need to ally with those in states where we don’t have a large footprint – like UP and Bihar. In some states where we have no presence, we need alliances. So we have to deal with (that) in Tamil Nadu, in Andhra Pradesh, Telangana.

So a grand alliance is going to be counter-productive?

(It is) not a question of counter-productive. It is far more difficult to be able to manage one to have to be able to have a grand alliance and then to manage it. So it is much better strategy to actually form strategic alliances in states.

You have said that the UPA was vilified and that the government was not able to stand up and defend itself. Was that a problem of leadership?

No. We were not able to deal with the events that were taking place. The leadership was extremely democratic, open-minded, and was reaching out, unlike this leadership, which throttles people’s freedom of speech. What happened was there was a confluence of forces. It started with the CAG and its report, that preposterous figure of Rs 1.76 lakh crore (alleged loss to the exchequer in the 2G spectrum allocation) which the media bought big time, and then came the Anna (Hazare) movement, and then the outlandish allegations of corruption.

Nobody has been able to prove anything till date. Obviously there was somebody behind this movement. It is difficult to pinpoint who exactly that was. You and I probably could guess who it was. Somebody was funding…the thousands of people at Ramlila ground..who was funding them? Who was providing for the vehicles, food packets, management of everything?

You were in government, you could have found out.

It is not a question of finding out. Those were events managed by the opposition, and managed well. Our image certainly took a big beating. What happened thereafter? Those who talked about social reform and social movement, never wanting to get into politics, were the ones who turned out to be most political people in the country…. I openly said these people are going to be in politics, their intent is to be in politics, but nobody believed us at that time. We made some mistakes also – all governments make mistakes. This government has made many mistakes.

But why could you not put up a united face? They tackle issues, allegations of corruption in one voice.

They have actually tackled issues in one voice and see what the result is. It is very well to say they tackle issues in one voice. If somebody is corrupt, and he is openly corrupt, they will support that person. The Prime Minister goes to France and buys Rafale off the shelf without a CCS [Cabinet Committee on Security] meeting, without a price negotiation and contract negotiation committee, without any procedures in place…they will all stand by the Prime Minister. Wrongdoing is supported by everybody.

There was at least a CAG report in the case of 2G. There is no such thing for Rafale.

All fell to the ground. What happened to that loss? I had said there is no question of loss. In the court, there was no pleading of loss. What happened to the media at that point in time because the media was not willing to listen despite the fact that we tried to explain. What happened to the media thereafter you and I know…

Parties win and lose elections, but the way Congress lost in 2014 was pretty bad.

The BJP had two seats at one point…. If you look at peace and tranquility, the kind of beating it has taken since 2014 is something that we should all worry about…. Where is this government leading this country to? I have several examples of that…speeches of BJP ministers, of the Prime Minister, the kind of lynchings and targeting which has taken place…it has never happened before.

I think the people of the country will have to decide. People say where is your (Congress or Opposition’s ) leader. That is what they ask, right? I say, take this leader — where has he brought this country to?