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Post by alexandra on May 21, 2010 15:58:56 GMT
Hi, I've just joined because I've been keeping regular garden snails as pets for about 2 years now, they are all healthy almost all of the time, but last night I found one of my snails has completely lost his shell. The shell had a nick in the front edge, which was created a few weeks ago when I think he fell from the wall onto a rock, but such minor damages have never usually resulted in anything like this.
I've put him in a seperate tank with nothing but lettuce and other leaves in it, because I think dirt might irritate or harm his insides, which are completely exposed. He's breathing and moving around and doesn't appear to be overtly suffering, apart from occasionally shrinking back.
The only information on this I found online was that snails suffocate eventually without their shell, but I think that was in reference to aquatic snails, and these are common garden variety. Should I consider putting him out of his misery, or let him live out his days in his own tank?
Alex
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Post by crossless on May 21, 2010 16:49:11 GMT
Snails shell job is to keep vital organs moist and protected, if snails have holes in their shell you need to have higher humidity than is ideal otherwise snail might dry out because it's weak and can keep it self enough fluid balanced till snail grows new shell repair and snail need calsium to repair it's shell.
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Post by alexandra on May 21, 2010 17:26:09 GMT
Thanks... I do take these precautions when neccecary, however this particular snail came completely out of his shell. The notch appeared about a month ago and was only small and in the front edge/lip, so it didn't expose any viscera, and I don't think it has anything to do with the snail losing his shell (which happened last night) - I mention it because I just don't know what else would cause it. I've never seen anything like it.
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on May 21, 2010 21:28:09 GMT
Hi alexandra, welcome to the forum. Sorry about your snail losing his shell. I've heard about that happening occasionally. (It's hard to say whether the notch had anything to do with it or not, without a pic.) Your snail will need a very high humidity in his tank to prevent him from dehydrating, which his shell would have done. He will also need a lot of calcium, so he should have access to cuttle, powdered limestone, liquid calcium, and/or foods high in calcium (collard greens, etc.)
If your snail ever looks stretched out and limp, that's a sign it can't breathe and might have suffocated. I'm not sure that shell loss would lead to that, though. Does your snail look normal otherwise?
Also, I'm not sure a snail could ever recover from shell loss. I'm so sorry I don't have better advice. Good luck with your snail, and please let us know how he's doing.
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Post by alexandra on May 22, 2010 18:56:53 GMT
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Post by crossless on May 22, 2010 19:29:44 GMT
Maybe he can't poop because I have noticed snails curl up and put foot near to breathing hole to help poop come out. Snails anus is on shell edge so i don't know is it holding it on place so snails can poop even when they don't stay still. I think I would put my snail to sleep if it would have shell. Shell is so important to snails so hard to think how much pain it will have. Some times animals don't show pain, because it's just nature and you get usually eaten if show signs of weakness..
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Post by alexandra on May 22, 2010 19:59:13 GMT
Quite possible. Though I haven't seen him eat, nor see any nibbled parts of the food I give him, he may have had a bit and just can't poo. I put him on a ball of very damp tissue, hoping he'd drink from it, but he always heads straight for the celing and just hangs there.
I think I will put him to sleep tomorrow, if I can't see a way forwards for him.
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on May 22, 2010 22:13:46 GMT
That is quite a big notch in the shell. I had a Theba pisana with a hole a little bigger than that in almost the same place, and I had to euthanize him. He kept on trying to crawl out of the hole instead of the natural aperture. I attempted a shell repair but it didn't hold because he kept pushing on it from inside. Like yours, he wouldn't eat and just kept on climbing to the lid of the tank.
I wish I had better advice to give you. Sometimes these things happen in spite of us doing our best for our snails, though, and often there's little that can be done.
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Post by alexandra on May 23, 2010 2:12:25 GMT
Thanks to everyone for the information anyway. I suppose I should do it tomorrow. Now to search for the most humane way to do it, which I presume is either putting them in the fridge or instantly crushing them. Personally I'd go for crushing as I personally wouldn't enjoy dying at the hands of coldness, but I suppose a snail has a different, well, everything...
edit: Well it seems the fridge is the general consensus from a quick google search on the web, so I'll be taking that route, it seems.
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Post by lee2211 on May 23, 2010 9:58:17 GMT
I believe the freezer would be more humane than the fridge, it would be quicker I'm sure. I'm sorry to hear about your snail, it was a beautiful specimen.
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Post by crossless on May 23, 2010 10:47:46 GMT
Fridge just make snail hibernate and sleepy, it don't kill it. Really, it just wakes up after you take it out of there, it needs to be put in freezer. Freezer is so cold that snail dies to "shock reaction" of quick temperature change.
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Post by alexandra on May 23, 2010 12:55:50 GMT
Ok, thanks for the clarification. Glad I checked back before doing it.
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Post by alexandra on May 23, 2010 15:38:19 GMT
Thanks... As it happens that was unusually difficult. I'm not really a sentimental person, but once I put him into the little container and saw him come to life in there it really upset me. I had to basically turn my mind off to place it in the freezer.
I think when things die it's not that bad for me, but when they're ill beforehand, especially a snail losing it's shell, there's a big psychological difference and it makes it more upsetting. I have 40 of these snails and I stopped naming them once my collection exceeded 10, but I spend so much time looking after them, nursing them when they're unwell, talking to them etc, that I get as attatched to them as I would a dog or any other pet..
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on May 23, 2010 20:57:59 GMT
I too had a very hard time the first time I had to put one of my ill snails in the freezer. It was incredibly upsetting, but I knew I was doing the right thing. That's part of the role we have to play as their caregivers; often what's best for them is very difficult for us, but we have to do it anyway.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Rest in peace, little snail.
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keli
Achatina fulica
Posts: 14
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Post by keli on May 24, 2010 10:38:22 GMT
I'm sorry, Alexandra. I've been looking for about it, and I found this. Perhaps It could be produced by a nematodo called "angiostoma aspersae". It's a parasite. You can see it here. It´s a spanish page. www.gireaud.net/es/ennemis_es.htm
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on May 24, 2010 18:50:47 GMT
According to my favorite on-line translator, the section about the worm says: "The angiostoma aspe is in the adult in the cavity where it produces palleal snail larvae. Nematode is a large (more than 2 mm.). The larvae are placed between the body and the shell of snails and the shelter can be separated from the shell."
I think it's saying that the angiostoma aspersae is found in the adult stage in the mantle cavity where it produces larvae. It is a large nematode (more than 2mm). The larvae get situated between the snail's body and the shell and can "evict" the snail from the shell.
This is the first explanation I have seen for a shell coming off a snail, especially regarding a H. aspersa.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 2, 2010 12:32:23 GMT
Bad news... Today I found another snail that has lost it's shell. This one was perfectly healthy and had NO damage to the shell prior to this. The other odd thing is that it's a snail from a different tank.
This snail looks a lot less bedraggled without his shell than the other guy did, and has kept his shape better. That may just be because I found him sooner. Looks like I'll have to research these nematodes, to see if I can prevent any more casualties...
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keli
Achatina fulica
Posts: 14
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Post by keli on Jun 2, 2010 13:34:49 GMT
Oh! I'm sorry.
Research, research. I don't know if nematodes can be seen without a microscope...
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Jun 2, 2010 20:15:57 GMT
If you know what to look for, something 2mm long can be seen with the naked eye. Even a strong magnifying glass will help. I have seen tiny worms crawling out of poop from wild snails and go into the nearby soil. I was not looking for them, but I happened to see it happening. Had I not been looking intently to begin with, I probably would not have noticed. I am so sorry about your other snail. Let us know if you find any nematodes, and what your learn from your research.
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Post by lee2211 on Jun 6, 2010 20:01:48 GMT
Bummer. I wonder why. I don't see how it could be a parasite if it's from a different tank?
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Jun 7, 2010 8:50:14 GMT
A tiny nematode like that could be spread from tank to tank unknowingly. One could get on your hand and if you don't wash your hands between tanks, it gets introduced into the next tank you touch.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 7, 2010 10:56:01 GMT
Well, I have to admit, I'm completely clueless here. All I can think of doing is giving them better hygene, and looking out for some kind of tiny parasite... All searches online for snails and nematodes lead to pages about snail murder, lol
I just hope they all haven't become infected, so far I've had to kill three of them. Hopefully the parasite died with the poor snail. What does the nematode even have to gain from 'evicting' a snail? Is it to make the snail get eaten so that it can infect another animal?
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Jun 7, 2010 16:25:10 GMT
I'm not sure how it benefits the parasite to do so, other than the numbers of nematodes simply build up to the point where the snail gets separated from the shell as a side effect of the population explosion.
Have you been able to see any nematodes on the snails or inside the shells?
Giving your snails white figs (Smyrna figs or Calimyrna figs) and/or pumpkin seeds can help kill nematodes. I put a whole pumpkin seed in my tanks every couple of weeks, and the snails rasp away at it little by little. You could also try grinding the seeds to make it easier for the snails to eat.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 10, 2010 8:52:18 GMT
I haven't seen any nematodes, though I've only been looking out for them recently. I'm considering releasing half of the population back to the wild because while they seem to be happy, I'm wondering if there may be a crowding issue relating to the spread of disease.
It doesn't feel right releasing these snails into the wild, since they seem to become tamer after living in captivity, but they may have a better chance that way. Does anyone feel that releasing snails from captivity puts them at a disadvantage?
I have ordered some giant pumpkin seeds, but couldn't find a source of the figs yet.
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Post by crossless on Jun 10, 2010 13:12:24 GMT
Wise thing at least as in all illness cases is separate sick ones from healthy ones. I think some mite or parates can't be seen like it's inside of animal somewhere and taking energy and food from it's host..
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